HRT or the "Natural Route" for Perimenopause? With Hormone Replacement Therapy, Why Is Your Own Research Key? When Should You Give Up Alcohol? with Guest Deanna Boyd

Martha: 0:01

Hey there here's what's coming up in this episode. It was those zoom happy hours. I know. I had more happy hours in quarantine than I had in my whole life. Right. Because I was too busy as a mom and too tired as an older person. But when I could have.

Happy I at exactly 5: 0:14

01 PM

Deanna: 0:16

you're not leaving the house we dunno what this pandemic is gonna bring. Go for

Martha: 0:20

liquor stores open as essential services. I mean, we were all set up for this and

Deanna: 0:27

trying to keep us liquored up. We don't want a

Martha: 0:29

revolution , because we said, two weeks at home to flatten the curve and then look at these people. They're stuck at home. as things started to open back up, I realized If I had a couple drinks, I would have fit full sleep and my first night sweats, I didn't notice before because we were all fitful cuz we were gonna die. it was obvious the impact it had

Deanna: 0:47

on my body.

Martha: 0:48

Welcome to the My Aloof Vagina Podcast, where we explore the distress and surprise of our midlife transitions. We take menopause seriously, but we don't take ourselves seriously. We believe that learning what to expect can be entertaining. It's inevitable, so we may as well equip ourselves and have a good time I'm your host, Martha and Deanna Boyd is back. She's a makeup artist and photographer of a certain age. Actually almost exactly the same age I am. Possibly around the same age. You are. she sees her work through the prism of an experienced. Woman. Going through perimenopause herself. So I'll bring her back to talk about things like makeup and skincare and self image tips, because she is full of wisdom and information. But in this episode, We are talking about our personal experiences with peri-menopause. What is the outlook and perspective of a woman who has decided to manage all this naturally? Without HRT. Or even. Herbal HRT alternatives. How might someone end up on the HRT path in her early fifties? Which lifestyle change might you feel compelled to make during midlife? It rhymes with Alcohol. Or actually it rhymes with living up smell alcohol. And why might reading up on things step away from Google first. Actually help us ride this wave. With more peace. And help us bring our loved ones along. We get into all of this and more so stick around. By the way as always anything we talk about during the show is referenced in the show notes for each episode links, more details photos, those kinds of things. You can find them any time right there in your podcast app or at myaloofvagina.com Even though Deanna and I are the same age. We are experiencing different symptoms. we're also making different choices. For treating or dealing with. This perimenopausal period. The situations that introduced us to this stage of life, that, that alerted us, that we were in it. We're different. She learned about peri-menopause and became aware she was in it by reading a book by Dr. Christianne Northrup. We referenced it briefly in the previous episode And I've linked it again in the show notes That menopause book was a comfort And. it equipped her. Two. Manage and navigate her symptoms in a specific way. And she feels really good about it. I'm not a doctor, but it's hard not to talk about HRT when we're talking about all of these things. And I don't want to confuse matters. I don't want to bring too much to people. Because confused people. Have a hard time taking action. And they have a hard time making choices And. At this stage, we need to make choices and. Aye. Believe that. People should be able to provide informed consent. When they're making these decisions. so I want to talk to my friends who have made different choices so that I'm sharing those perspectives. Not really bringing a lot of research to the table, although maybe I might do an episode at some point and share the research that led me to the choices I made. And I will link in the show notes That New York times article that does a pretty good job of summarizing. The HR team marketplace. I guess that's the only way I can describe it. The conversation in this episode comes on the heels of other chats that Deanna and I had as friends. About what we're going through and asking each other. I'm like, what's up with that. Because I know we talked about hormone testing, we talked about the doctor's perspectives and what they say, but I do wanna revisit that cuz we, we'd had an interesting conversation.

Deanna: 4:32

The joy of of perimenopause? Yes. Is that, is that what we're

Martha: 4:36

talking about? That's actually gonna be the title of this episode,

Deanna: 4:39

The joy, the the love and light around perimenopause. well it's interesting because I think it was during the pandemic, when you feel all the things, I think just that mindset of like, are we gonna die ? What's going on in the world? I'm turning 50 this year and I'm a mother of a younger child, so I think just a lot of the things that cross your mind cuz you have like less time in front of you than you do behind you. So I just really sat with myself during that time. I'm like, what is going on with me? Yes. You know, this, that, this, that. So I ended up finding an audiobook on menopause and within the first chapter, I was like, oh my God, I've been in per menopause probably for the last four years, and didn't even know. My mom didn't talk to me about it. I know that I had other friends that didn't talk to me about it. So here I find this book going, this is what I've been dealing with for the last four years. It, even my own guy know, didn't even kind of bring it anything up. Like, you're probably impair menopause. Here are some of the things. and I love my gyno. I just don't think it's, it just wasn't top of mind. Now I feel like I'm hearing more about it, don't you? And maybe it's the algorithms and all the things, but I feel like more people are talking about, because celebrities are turning, the ones we grew up with like they're all turning 50. So now we're hearing more about it.

Martha: 5:56

Yeah. I had never even heard the term perimenopause. I had no concept of what it was. Like you, my mom never talked about it and people weren't talking about it. realize now, I had been experiencing symptoms for years and didn't know. Cause I was looking for the things that my friends were complaining about. And you know, I was a little smug because my friends were saying, oh gosh, sleep is terrible. How's your sleep? I'm like, oh, my sleep's good. Oh, the hot flashes. I'm like, what? Are you having a hot flash? No. and then they started saying things to me as if I were younger, which I wasn't. you know, like they're cursing me like Hilda. They're like, oh, just wait. You're, you're not gonna be sleeping so well soon and Oh, just wait. You're not gonna be able to wear pullover sweatshirts. And I was very focused on those specific Symptoms. so I missed a whole host of indicators that I had been in perimenopause and the doctor didn't talk about it. And I had been seeing doctors who specialize in women's afflictions cuz I'd a fibroid surgery when I was 45 and my recovery was wasn't great. There were things that they said, oh, I don't know why this is happening. Like, why are you still having really heavy periods? We don't know why this, why that. To be examined so closely by people who are professionals taking care of women of a certain age and have not one single doctor, nurse, anybody even utter the words. That is an indicator that there's a problem, There's a problem with information. But you're right now that Naomi Watts has started something. Yeah, they're

Deanna: 7:26

all talking about when's everybody, yes. They're all talking because we're seeing them. We're like, okay, things are changing. for me, it was all, you feel like you wanna lose your mind. A little thing sets you off. The piddly little, like all the things that you're, I think said the mental piece of it and then the emotional piece. I'm already pretty emotional, so I think there was a little bit of that, but there is something as you're going through these different hormonal things so I would say around 46 is when I started to feel some of those things that I can go, okay, this was the beginning. Even though my periods were still regular and very heavy. Mind you, and some of those things, like you were talking about fibroids. I had polyps a little different, but because of the heavy bleeding and, and all of that, and a lot of this is hormonal and a lot of this is normal and we don't talk about that enough, the mental health piece of it. And back in the old days, they would just, you know, lock 'em up. Oh, she's losing her mind. She's delusional. She's, hysterical, hysterical. Let's go, you know, lock her up into a, you know, insane asylum when really they're just going through a change in life. Now that I understand it, that book just opened my eyes. I can deal with it., Like I can go, okay, this is just, I need to let this pass. And you find ways to cope Whether that's, go take a walk, breathing exercises, meditation, whatever floats your boat, whatever to bring you back and center you into the moment. And knowing that this is temporary, instead of medicating you too, you know, unless you need it.

Martha: 8:50

yeah, I'm gonna see if, can you be like pin it or something? hello listener I'm popping in. To explain. Deanna was wearing earbuds with a microphone. That was rubbing up against her and it had been driving me a little bit crazy. I had her take off her jewelry and if you watch the video, you'll see my face. so distracted by the noise. Maybe that's a symptom. not being able to control my face is definitely a symptom the agitation part of it. I don't know if that was a symptom or if it's just because I'm so committed to sound quality that I had to interrupt. Again You're saying it's all these great things and then it, it just, that would drive me crazy. Listen, no, it goes every time it hits. And so then I feel like I don't wanna edit out great stuff you're saying and then, but when you're animated, it's, I should just not

Deanna: 9:37

be animated. No, I like you animated.

Martha: 9:39

I think it's the hair hitting it cuz it's not, not the shirt, but I'll let you know. Yeah. So the hair is, you wanna pin it? Okay. Is that good?

Deanna: 9:46

I just don't wanna be looking like I'm naked. I know either. There we go. Yeah. Trying too hard. Is that better? No,

Martha: 9:51

it's right on the shirt. Yeah, it's the shirt. You're right. It

Deanna: 9:54

is the shirt.

Martha: 9:54

Okay. Um, you could look, you're naked. I mean, little sex appeal. Let me see. Right. Yes. I want you to look good. And I also don't want making that noise.

Deanna: 10:05

Let me see if I can put it underneath something and then just be cognizant. Is this better? Yeah.

Martha: 10:10

Is what it is It like pulled away from your face and I can't tell. Amazing So here's how she solved it. she grabbed a weighted tape dispenser and used it to anchor the earbud cord away from her body. I mean,

Deanna: 10:25

again, we're learning things.

Martha: 10:26

Innovative, middle-aged women. We will find a solution. I will look

Deanna: 10:31

for. We've lived, we've lived some decades. We've lived some decades. Yeah.

Martha: 10:34

Scrappy. Scrappy, problem solving. when you were talking about being on edge and the mood stuff because of my single status, I haven't had a ton of continuity since my son went away to college. So Do I have that I would've probably attributed how angry I was or irritated with whomever I was around or whatever job I had. So I would've said, oh, I hate this job. These people at my job made me crazy. Yes. Right. Instead of recognizing like, why am I feeling differently? Or this man I'm dating, ugh. When if he'd been the same man for a decade, I might have said, gosh, I didn't used to hate that about him. But instead here I am thinking all of, if I had the moods, it was all external. And so wouldn't have recognized it. Like, you recognized, why am I having these feelings? Mm-hmm., or you read the book and said, oh, that's why I was feeling those feelings. Deanna: Well, right. And I think as women, because God forbid we have emotions and we talk about it or have like, oh, my, she's so emotional, you know? Okay. I'm sorry. You hide your feelings. I'm sorry. You know, , to those people that judge other people that are different. Like we all express differently. some people are a little more shielded and they don't show everything, which is great. I try to be a little more like that. You don't need to see me crying over something so lame in my kitchen that I couldn't put into the drawer. And I'm just like, ah, you know, you wanna lose it. it is just those moments too, because I've, tested with all my hormones and at this point I'm not deficient or lacking. And I know that's a whole other controversial thing. Like if you just do a little more of this and a little more of that, I'm trying to not do any of that unless I have to, and I will. I'm not opposed to medication. I just wanna try and do this naturally because I just feel like if I can get through this because when you understand that this is a part of your life up to 10 years, 10 years of this. Oh, I mean, when I heard that, I was like, are you, kidding me? But I feel like when I had that information, and as I started doing more research, when I talked to my husband about, And I said, I just want you to understand that this is very normal. I even like, I do this often. I don't know if you do this with friends or anybody else, but I'll screenshot something of like a podcast or an audiobook and I play it back for him. I'm like, you need to hear this. Oh no. From a professional, like this is what she's saying. I just want you to understand, I hope you can handle me for the next, how, I don't even know how long this is gonna last, just so he's aware, But I think when you're all aware, nobody's like in confusion about it. I mean, there'll be moments where he's like, dude, do you need to go take a break or do you need to go somewhere? he's done that a couple times and I appreciate that. Cuz that brings me to the moment, I don't have that experience. going through this without, an ever present partner, but even

Deanna: 13:11

a friend, don't you? I still do that. I'm like, oh my gosh, I remember this thing. Or I will like record it and send it to them. I mean,

Martha: 13:17

I share information. I mean, my whole podcast is no. Instead I started a podcast. Okay.

Deanna: 13:22

Yeah. Really? Yes,

Martha: 13:23

yes, yes, yes, yes. I don't have to brief people individually. They can just tune in , they can tune in and learn all about it. when you said 10 years, and I thought some of this mood stuff isn't dissimilar to pm s. That able to fly off the handle, the moments that um, the similarities with the hormones. I do , I do actually take h r t. Okay. I'm taking a hormone replacement. Yes. and my perspective's a little bit different and I may have made different choices if I had read that book. Mm-hmm., which we'll put in the show notes for people. But if I'd read the same book you did at the same point, I might've totally different journey. But what I experienced was a big surprise. Like I thought I was like, do, do, do not recognizing I had any symptoms at all. And then the canary in the coal mine was my clitoris. Right.. I thought that clitoral atrophy thing that freaked me out. And when I want on the clitoral atrophy research, deep dive, make myself crazy, scare all my friends, like, it's gonna fall off. He's gonna lose it. That whole thing. more sex was part of the prescription. Um, masturbation. Mm-hmm. some some medical devices like medical vibrator, suction things all for circulation. Mm-hmm.. But across the board they said testosterone supplementation. Mm-hmm.. And so, , I know I got a medical device. I, you know, I was masturbating , I was having sex, I was doing all those things, but I, fixated on the testosterone I didn't wanna do anything weird over the counter. I wanted to see a professional. Sure. She went on the hunt for a professional who specializes in menopause and went there and asked for it. And she said, your testosterone levels are fine. like, I keep mine higher. A lot of people, I keep them higher when fine, they feel better with it. their moods are more stable. They find that they have, uh, better time managing their weight and muscle tone and, can help with sensitivity and it can even help with libido. I got on testosterone. I think if, if I'd had a different entry symptom, I wouldn't be on that path. Because once I took the testosterone, and this might be a cautionary tale, I took the testosterone, my levels, all my hormone levels were high in normal. I started taking the testosterone very soon after I started having period changes that I thought were related. And she said, no, it wouldn't do that. And then my estrogen and my progesterone plummeted, and I started having hot flashes. So I thought, oh my gosh, that's from the testosterone. Well, in reality, What I didn't know is our hormones are fluctuating all the time. It's just a snapshot. So that first blood test that said, I had, the hormones of a 30 year old, that was just that one day. Okay. Right. So I was very smug about that too. Telling all my friends, well, I'm with the hormones of a 30 year old. I, I could be, I could be the surrogate for my own son as wife . Like, I, I'm, I'm 50 years old and I think I was exactly 51 when I had the testing. Oh yeah. I don't know. And really it's like blood sugar. It's just one moment in time. Mm-hmm.. so I'm on the side you know, better living through pharmaceuticals, I am supplementing with hormones because I wanna navigate this Take the edge off all of those symptoms. And then also because now I'm on that pro side, this is almost like politics. Now on the pro side, I am in an echo chamber and I'm self-selecting information that supports that. now I'm on the side of, thinking this is gonna help me with bone loss. This is gonna help me with my heart health. Mm-hmm., in the olden days, we only lived, maybe if we're really old, we lived to 80, but now we might have as much life post-menopausal as we had prior. and I want the protections that this estrogen's provided my whole life. And so I'm like deeply in for my own self, not other people. Sure, sure. Course, course. Deeply entrenched in, I wanna supplement and, and maintain and not have the worst of the symptoms. I don't wanna have to grin and bear it or go through it. knowing why it's happening is not enough for me. But my primary symptoms are different than yours. Mm-hmm., like it wasn't. Yeah. If it were just mood, would I be able to do it? If it, if it weren't. My poor vagina, If I'd been married and having sex, like all married people having regular sex like three, four times a week. Right. Good. Satisfying three to four times a week, 50 year old sex. Isn't that what people are having? Oh

Deanna: 17:35

my. Okay, let me, hold on.

Martha: 17:38

I'm like, uh, that's my fantasy, right? Yeah.

Deanna: 17:40

I'm like, I think it just depends on the season. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody. Yeah. But yeah, if you were having it regularly,

Martha: 17:47

then this wouldn't have been the symptom for me. Sure. And I might have not even gone down that path.

Deanna: 17:51

well, I'm not opposed to it too because like, I, I mean, I feel like whether that was four years ago or whatever it is, I'm still, getting hyper periodic, periodic period periodically I'm getting something I'm still kind of in the early stages and that might be in my future, so right now I'm just kind of having these kind of symptoms in that I know like what to expect, that I can attribute it to that. And sometimes I think it's just mood and just my personality and whatever, of course. And I'm not putting it all on the perimenopause, but I do feel like a lot is attributed to that. So I think a lot of it, for me, and I, this doesn't work for everybody. It really is checking in with the mental health. I really try to do meditation. I really try to do a lot of that mind exercise, whatever that is, and feeding it with good information as much as I can. Positive things So I really try to do that. I journal, those types of things to really help me out. But e everybody's different. some people it's exercise, some people, talking to a friend or talking to somebody, a professional. So I think it just depends. Or margaritas or margaritas, . But I'll tell you that has been a difference for me not drinking. I don't drink that often. And there's, oh, I'm gonna have you

Martha: 19:02

on this podcast.

Deanna: 19:03

I know girl, well, listen, I had plenty of fun. I'm kidding. Back in my day. Plenty of fun. I have lived, I have done all those things. But this is part of perimenopause is some people, and it's not a huge percentage, but it's still a good chunk. I'm not gonna say it cuz I, I can't give the exact number but where your metabolism, especially when you're going through this, you, since you're going through all these hormonal things, you do not metabolize alcohol the same. So for me, the symptoms, and, and this went on even prior to four years ago, it was in my forties. I would just drink one drink and I'd go, oh, I can't even hear what she's saying to me with my friend or whatever. I almost felt like I was kind of drugged up or a little, you know, high and not in a good way. And I said, this is weird. And I could have one or five drinks. It didn't matter. it would hit me hard. And then the depressing part of it came about, and I've never really had that before. And I know that's can happen, but I would almost feel like, not the next day, but a couple days later, I just feel a little down. So that was another thing too, because my body just isn't metabolizing it. So now I've kind of figured out what I can have here and there. I didn't have alcohol for almost a year. pre pandemic. I was like a month away from a year. I did it for me. Nothing happened. There was not like a situation. that's another thing. You get into that, that's a whole other conversation. God forbid you don't drink the things, you don't get invited to the people that judge you white. Well, what happened? What did you do? did you have a problem with it? You know, I'm like, no, I just, oh yeah And then your social calendar changes too It would've been a year., but then the pandemic happened. So I had my glass of wine . So

Martha: 20:42

that year, that year that you weren't drinking and people weren't inviting you to stuff, it was

Deanna: 20:48

weird. I'll tell you, it was weird. I'm like, I could be your dd yo. invite me. I'm fun. I'm fun. I do not need alcohol to have fun or drugs or anything like that to have fun, you know? And that's how we met.

Martha: 20:59

We met sober in the middle of the day.

Deanna: 21:01

Remember? I can't believe that. Just turn around. You guys cutting in front of me.

Martha: 21:06

Did I say it or did you say

Deanna: 21:08

it? You said it. Cause it was my, I was with my friend and she just like walked up right in front of you guys. And then I just hear the, I cuz I was just following her totally oblivious to like a line of any sort. And you guys were so sweet and you're like, no, no, no, we're just messing with you. Have fun. Yeah, who cares? Anyway, and we, I don't, I don't have how many years? That's like five years ago. Six years, five

Martha: 21:28

years ago. Yeah. Five years ago. I don't have any part of me that really cared if you cut. Which is why I said it in my, it's funny cuz if I did, if I, if it did, it wasn't like passive aggressive because if I did care, I'd say, excuse me, the line starts back there. But instead it was just because you're direct. Isn't that interesting? Right. I'm very direct. Yeah, same. Um, but it made me laugh because Some people are afraid to joke like that because people might overreact. Right? But you turned around and it was the perfect match. And then friends for life, I know

Deanna: 22:01

because I'm the same. I'm very, very the same. Like I'm very direct, you know, I think alpha females find each other. I'm like a whole thing about that. Like we can have a whole podcast on that. on alpha females on females. Yes. They give, they're giving a bad rap sometimes. You know? I wanna talk

Martha: 22:15

about alcohol for a second. Yes. and the processing, because, so of course I've had two periods in my life where I drank more than I would normally. One, I was living with someone I was not happy. And it was a built-in bartender, Mm-hmm. at, you know, on every, any given Tuesday, any given Tuesday, he, he could say, Hey, you want a margarita? And I'd say, yeah, Or, Hey, should I get some wine from downstairs? And I'd say, yeah, because it was a built-in pusher and he drank every day. Yes. And so,

Deanna: 22:51

oh yeah, when you develop those habits,

Martha: 22:53

and maybe he was drinking every day, cuz he also was unhappy. Who knows what was going on with us. But I left that relationship and didn't drink. I just stopped drinking. When I lived alone. I didn't drink at first. I did, I would open a bottle of wine out of habit. I'm like, what am I doing? So then I stopped and then I., you know, had normal, what would be considered normal social drinking. Right. but I'm still like a one or two drink girl. I get more than two drinks and it's, it's not even fun for me. But then in the pandemic, it was those zoom happy hours. I know. Which I turned into making cocktails for myself at my house because, you know, zoom Happy Hour was happy. I had more happy hours in quarantine than I had in my whole life. Right. Because I was too busy as a mom to go to Happy Hour. And too tired as an older person. But when I could have.

Happy I at exactly 5: 23:41

01 PM cuz we all shut

Deanna: 23:44

down our zoom. Can you just go to your bedroom or your living room or your kitchen? You're not leaving the house and you think you're gonna, we dunno what this pandemic is gonna bring. Do you know? I think that that was just the mentality. We're like, Fett, you know? Yeah, let's go for it.

Martha: 23:59

Plus they kept the liquor stores open as essential services. I mean, we were all set up for this and um, all my wineries were offering, cuz they were, you know, their tasting rooms were closed. They were all offering special deals and special shipping and at home wine tastings, the, the wine store near me had this thing where it would be six different wines, little out one ounce pores they made. It was genius. Right. And I would go buy 'em and then they started delivering them. And, and so they're

Deanna: 24:27

just trying to keep us liquored up. They're like, you know, we don't want a

Martha: 24:31

revolution , because we said, we said two weeks at home to flatten the curve and then look at these people. They're stuck at home. So I remember, I started seeing someone, you know, I had a pandemic boyfriend and um, we would get on the phone with each other cuz it was long distance and drink on the phone for hours. And as things started to open back up, I realized how much I'd been drinking and how. How I didn't feel good about it. Um, but one of the things I know, so I stopped. Right. So those are two periods where I was definitely like, what's happening? I can see where I could end up having a problem or what felt like a problem to me. Mm-hmm.. But, so then I stopped drinking. I started like work, you know, and I was gonna lose weight in pa in the quarantine. And I was working out and I was eating great and everything was going awesome. And, but if I met up with my friends and we went to dinner and I had a couple drinks, I would go home and I would have fit full sleep and I would have, um, that was my first night sweats, but they weren't full night sweats where I would just be hot in the night. And I think it's what you were saying about my body just wasn't processing it. But I didn't notice before because we were all fitful cuz we were gonna die. Right, right. And now that I was healthy again and, and doing other things, the occasional happy hour, the occasional dinner with wine was, it was obvious because it was so occasional, it was obvious the impact it had

Deanna: 25:59

on my body. It's interesting. It really is because that was, that was our, the same thing because my husband and I, we just don't drink at home. We just maybe went early on and that kind of thing. Like I said, I had plenty of fun in my time back in the day and where if I think about like you're telling me your story about, I'm like, oh, is that what you thought? I'm like, I think I was just, it was a good party for, I don't even know how many years in my twenties and thirties when I was single and living in LA and doing all the things and I was in the bar and restaurant industry as well. Cause you work five jobs in la and so I was around it all the time, so I probably didn't even realize I may have had an issue because I was in it, but I could never, I could always just not drink though either. It's like, that was my thing. I could either drink, not drink, whatever, it didn't matter. but I feel like at this age, especially when you're only socially drinking, like maybe here and there, maybe once, twice, three times a month if that, that's when I saw the big difference. Like, I mean, I could tell, and again, and it, it's probably because I wasn't drinking as well. So there's like that, a little bit of a built up tolerance, but my body just was like rejecting it. Now I've just kind of figured out if I just keep it pretty pure, don't really mix any kind of sugars in it, or if I have a glass in wine here and there and I usually drink this sounds, Obnoxious, but like international, anything outside of the US cuz we, they just have, different things in, in their soil and how things are done and there's that extra sulfites and all that stuff. So that's a whole other conversation. But, and, and you know what, having a glass or two , you know, not the whole bottle. I mean, that's gonna mess up anybody. So, you know, to feel horrible. I, but there is something about, like you were saying, sorry, metabolizing,

Martha: 27:40

so tho those are two symptoms we have with you now. We have the mood and we have the alcohol change. Mm-hmm. and what else, what o other symptoms that you're experiencing because I'm cataloging these now. No, because no one told the me like, no one ever told me

Deanna: 27:55

that. So I know, so I'm half Asian, so I know I've got some of the genetics that play into it. And so, you know, I've had some people like, I can't believe you're 52. And I'm like, I'm very, I've always been immature or whatever you wanna call it. I just, I think it's attitude. I'm like, I don't feel ever an age really. I mean, I'm starting to feel certain things and I'm starting to see different things. So I'm starting to notice just the differences in my skin, like how the skin hangs. That's been a big thing. right here. And then the one eye that's Drew, then the other.

Martha: 28:30

This is our personal stories episode gonna save it for your professional one. I

Deanna: 28:34

never know. Are you noticing?

Martha: 28:36

Listener. I had not been noticing. But I was obsessed. Once she'd mentioned this. Phenomenon to me. I couldn't stop thinking about it, which you already know if you listened to the clitoral atrophy episode, because I really pressed her. To get. the scoop on it. When. Not if when I bring Deanna back again, we will do a deep dive on skincare, aging face asymmetry. all of those things. Because that whole one side of your face falling thing is definitely happening to me. Even if I have not noticed it on famous women, our age. Thank you for listening. Until next time. Take care of yourself and take care of your vagina. If you love this irreverent podcast, please recommend it to a friend. You think will enjoy it so that we know to keep delivering this very specific style of midlife information and stories for you. And one of the surprises of the show has been how great it is to hear from you remember to find me the next time you're on Instagram to let me know what you think. Look me up at my aloof vagina.