Clitoral Atrophy: What Is It & What Causes It? Plus What Do Make-Up Artists Know About the Aging Perimenopausal Face That We Don't? And How Are Our Sleeping Habits Related? With Guest & Make-Up Artist Deanna Boyd

Martha: 0:01

Hey there here's what's coming up in this episode.

Deanna: 0:04

What is, is it just like the mom pouch? what are we gonna call that?

Martha: 0:07

I think it's the mom pouch. People have all their lives. I know. Is that thickening around the middle where you just don't look like a girl anymore. You, it's just a grandma. Look, it's called Menno

Deanna: 0:16

Menno Belly. That's what we, yes.

Martha: 0:18

I've seen that. I think on some terrible ads that I was targeted by on Facebook.

Deanna: 0:22

Yeah, I wonder what I'm gonna get now that it's been listening. Like what kind of thing? I'll screenshot and send it to you.

Martha: 0:29

Listen, I should actually put that into the release. by appearing on this podcast, you are telling the algorithm that you want all of the ads about men, Obel belly. Yes. Literal atrophy, libido problems, hair loss, eye lifts. Welcome to the My Aloof Vagina Podcast, where we explore the distress and surprise of our midlife transitions. We take menopause seriously, but we don't take ourselves seriously. We believe that learning what to expect in perimenopause can be entertaining. It's inevitable, so we may as well equip ourselves and have a good time.

1:05

I'm your host, Martha, and this episode was actually recorded before the podcast even launched. My friend Deanna Boyd and I had been talking about what was happening with our bodies and our brains, so we decided to record it. Deanna is a longtime makeup artist and photographer who encourages women to their unique look through her work and with her social presence. As unfiltered and evolving beauty as friends do. We meander a bit, we talk about a lot of things. What exactly is clitoral atrophy? What happens to all our faces as we get closer to menopause that she even notices with the rich and famous? And what do your sleep habits have to do with it? And what key tips. Does she have around changing your makeup as you age? We've got the answers to all these questions and more in this episode, so stick around.

Martha: 1:54

By the way as always anything we talk about during the show is referenced in the show notes for each episode links, more details photos, those kinds of things. You can find them any time right there in your podcast app or at myaloofvagina.com

2:11

My favorite part about this podcast has been being able to share some of my favorite people with you, some of my accomplished friends, my interesting friends. And before I tell you a little bit more about the conversation today, I do wanna let you know that I am still away from home. That situation with the older relative who fell and needed surgery has now doubled. I now have two older relatives here, both with osteoporosis, both with dangerous fractures that required surgery. It's been a lot, I mean, I feel. Like I've aged a decade in the few weeks I've been here, and I am sure that I look like it right now. I'm hidden away up in the treehouse to record, so it might not be great sound quality for this intro, and you may even hear in the background, wanted to mention it again because. Longevity is still on my mind. Osteoporosis is on my mind and I wanna make sure I bring someone on the show to talk about it, to talk about things we can do to avoid it and to improve our experience as we age. So if you know anybody, if you know a longevity expert who's fun or funny, which might be a stretch, Or you have any other suggestions for me and the show, please send me a DM on Instagram or reply to any sisterhood email, and let me know. Now, one key part of healthy aging is making sure you're having fun choosing fun, and Deanna and I definitely have fun in this conversation. She mentions in passing a book that helped her realize she was in perimenopause, that book is linked in the show notes for you. So this chat opens with me asking her what she's noticed about this stage of life.

Martha: 3:49

symptoms that you're experiencing because I'm cataloging these now. because no one told me like, no one ever told me

Deanna: 3:54

So I'm starting to notice like just the differences in my skin, you know, like how the skin hangs. That's been a big thing.

Martha: 4:02

Your jowls, you keep referencing your gel

Deanna: 4:04

right here, right And then the one eye that's Drew, then the other. And it, can we talk to that

Martha: 4:10

about that, can we just talk about the one eye, because I'm, I don't, I

Deanna: 4:13

never know. Are you noticing? Well, I don't see, I already you, it's slight for you. Okay, so that would be your right eye like looking, My right eye's the same. if you're noticing celebrities our age,

Martha: 4:23

well yeah. So let's talk about that because I always had hooded eyes. I always had one eye that was smaller than the other. But when you and I were talking a couple months ago, you mentioned like as a throwaway line. Oh, you know how one side well age differently in one eye. And I had never heard that. So please explain this one eye thing what

Deanna: 4:39

is the story? Well, most likely you're around our age range, so you're gonna probably notice and I hate calling out names, but you know, they're out there. But like Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, Gwyneth Paltro, Naomi Watts, around our age range. You know these actresses that were very popular in the nineties. And you just see it. And here's the thing, it's a rare occasion that you find somebody like Janet Jackson, that's perfectly Like symmetrical, you know, her eyes and usually you are gonna be a little off, or your nose is a little crooked and things like that. That's what makes us beautiful those unique things. It's just the way it is. And it goes with boobs too. boobs, same thing one. You know what they're. Sister's not twins. Isn't that the the thing? Okay. It's like brown.

Martha: 5:22

Mine are cousins, cousin, My boobs are cousins. They're not even

Deanna: 5:28

sisters. No. So, you know, I just wanna throw that out there. And you're beautiful just the way you are and this is just if you're starting to see that it's, it's natural. Botox can't help that. It's a facelift that's gonna help that. Or like some kind of surgical eye surgery that's gonna help that Botox is not gonna help. That. that is a natural part of aging.

Martha: 5:46

You were saying something about I know our faces aren't symmetrical. Um, and by the way, this is not the podcast where we have to worry about, you know, everyone's beautiful. This is not that podcast, This is a podcast where my vagina wasn't working

Deanna: 5:57

so well know. I know, but I believe there's enough on social media to make you feel bad. You know what I mean? Right. So I just, my clients, I just never want them to ever feel that way. You know, as a makeup artist and photographer, I'm like, you are stunning just the way you are, yes, I can help you with that, or I can tell you why that's happening, But I never want anybody to feel that bad about. So

Martha: 6:16

the uneven part? Not the fact that they're not symmetrical, but you said as you age, there's something about like only one side falls

Deanna: 6:24

or something. Is that, well, listen, I am not a professional d dermatologist, plastic surgeon, whatever. So this is just my opinion. I've been a makeup artist for 30 years. Oh God. Actually it'll be 31 years this year. I, so I know. I'm like, ugh. But yeah, I just feel like what I've noticed in my, you know, experience it's one side that just kind of, and then eventually it evens out, but one side goes further. I don't know if you've noticed that. part of your body, this, this part is just, it's heading downward earlier and then this other side will eventually match.

Martha: 7:01

So, so that's what you're saying is that when we age, what you've noticed, because you're up close on people's faces and all day long and paying attention. Mm-hmm. one side starts to go first. So for a little while it looks a little bit unbalanced. That's

Deanna: 7:14

it from my experience. That is just what I've seen and I've just, I see it with my clients. I see it with like celebrities and these are people that pay money to get all the things done. And you can even still see it with them cuz they haven't had the whole face lift or they haven't had the eye, surgery or, that kind of thing. So they haven't done that yet. And hey, props to people that do that, whatever makes you feel

Martha: 7:34

better. You know, because I think I see it on my face for sure. I just am annoyed that it's the same side that was already smaller. So it's just, it's just, um, intensifying that. Whereas if it had been the other side, I might have been even for a

Deanna: 7:46

couple years, and that's probably why maybe that side has always been that way, has always been the one that's gravity wise going downward faster.

Martha: 7:55

I don't mean to harp on it. I just found it so fascinating when you said that kind of in passing to me and I said, Ooh, hold up. Here's the other thing. A friend of mine, her mom used to have this party trick, she could tell what side you sleep on because of the crease. So, I have been trying probably for a decade to sleep on my back. I mean, I sleep with a silk pillow case, but I try to sleep on my back as much as possible. Of course, I wake up on my side, look at me and say, oh, I, you sleep on this side,

Deanna: 8:20

on your right side. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know what? And that's a PO that could possibly. contribute to that too, you know? Definitely I have had neck surgery, So I sleep with like a neck pillow it's a satin one. I have a, I have one that I can definitely recommend. Ooh. And she, we'll put that in the show notes. Yeah. Nurse. Jamie, I think it is. And I love her pillow because if you are a side sleeper, so it does the neck thing, which is actually really supportive here. But she has this really unique pillow it's a weird shape. I'm trying to think of how to describe it. But it has this area where if you do sleep on your side, It's open. So, yeah. So you so there's less scrunching. There's less scr. I want that pillow. Okay. I'll show that pillow. I'll show it to you. It's fabulous. But it's re really great for next support too.

Martha: 9:02

That's good. I'm all about gadgets and things. Mean the silk pillow cases people. Oh wow. Like why wouldn't I? They're not that expensive. Oh yes. It's good for my hair. It's good for my skin. And I change them more often because I'm aware I'm paying attention, so.

Deanna: 9:17

oh yeah, that's true. That's a whole other thing on just like sleeping on a dirty pillow and one thing I was gonna say too, not only with like my face, but it's that little front area right here, the little pouch. Like on on your stomach Okay. Arm pouch Yes. I think they call it f a fpa. Isn't that what it is? Oh,

Martha: 9:34

is it a fpa? I thought FPA was lower. It is, but

Deanna: 9:37

I don't know. Technically it's a, I just, yeah, I don't know. All I know is it's like the little tummy portion above the FPA

Martha: 9:43

Yes. Right,

Deanna: 9:44

Why is that? why

Martha: 9:46

I was kind of, was fatter on the stomach. Like I still don't like have like a narrow waist or a flat stomach. Yeah, I, yeah, right. I had great legs, but you know, more apple shaped so it was never super flat. It always carried fat there, even when I was thin. But then I had that surgery with the fibroids, which was basically a cesarean, but no babies, just mm-hmm. giant fibroids. so I had now a cesarean scar and a cesarean incision. And since that happened, now I have that like shelf, which I never had before, which really was upsetting to me because, you know, zero to 45, none of that. And now I've got that, it's. I don't

Deanna: 10:22

understand. it's very normal. It's hormonal. And even for the women that do work out and they have typically had had like a flat stomach and that they're even noticing like that area is just hard unless you're doing something surgically to kind of help it, you know?

Martha: 10:36

So you're not talking about just the mom pouch, you're talking about menopausal increased fat around your middle.

Deanna: 10:42

That's what I'm noticing. Yes. It's just all around, cortisol levels and things like that. Sure.

Martha: 10:48

The thickening around the middle.

Deanna: 10:49

Yes.

Martha: 10:50

It's why women wear these big flower tops that like tie at the boobs to create like a curtain

Deanna: 10:55

or Spanx

Martha: 10:56

or Spanx or older women, the whole dressing thing where, you know, I shouldn't even say this out loud because it's gonna be me where they wear outfits that highlight their legs because their legs still look good. Uh huh that this whole kind of fat middle thing doesn't exist. You know what I'm talking about about?

Deanna: 11:14

Yes, I know, I know.

Martha: 11:16

I have that build anyway, I have a feeling it's gonna get worse with menopause. Like that's gonna be my, LEWK

Deanna: 11:22

Well Nooo it's not gonna be your look. We can change that. We can fix that. Come on, we can fix that. But I think we're not our parents 52. You know? Right. So when you're talking about dressing,

Martha: 11:32

we're not Golden Girls 52 because they were in their

Deanna: 11:34

fifties. Yes. and the youngest one was in their forties. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Martha: 11:40

You know, it just goes to show that those style choices can make such a difference in how you feel and how you look. And you can disguise your, pooch or whatever, your menopause, what

Deanna: 11:48

is that called? What is, is it just like the mom pouch? Is it what, what are we gonna call that? Maybe there's

11:52

a

Martha: 11:52

difference for that. I think it's the mom pouch. People have all their lives. This is that thickening. I know. Is that thickening around the middle where you just you don't look like a girl anymore. You, it's just a grandma. Look, it's called Menno Belly. I know.

Deanna: 12:06

I don't, yeah. Menno Menno men. Menno Belly. That's what we, yes.

Martha: 12:11

I've seen that. I think on some terrible ads that I was targeted by on Facebook.

Deanna: 12:15

Yeah, I wonder what I'm gonna get now that it's been listening. Like what kind of thing? I'll screenshot and send it to you.

Martha: 12:22

Listen, I should actually put that into the release. by appearing on this podcast, you are telling the algorithm that you want all of the ads about men, Obel belly. Yes. Literal atrophy, libido problems, hair loss, eye lifts.

Deanna: 12:38

I think you need a whole, I think you just need one podcast on the clitoral atrophy. I've heard a little bit, I've read a little bit, but not, I mean, I'd like to understand your experience more.

Martha: 12:49

Yes, I, well, I've actually posted an episode that I'll send you a link. Ooh, okay. Okay. Okay. It is the flagship affliction of this podcast, so I'm happy to talk about it briefly. Yes. So

Deanna: 13:01

Mylo

Martha: 13:01

vagina. Yes. My aloof vagina is just, you know, a different way to refer to cli A atrophy. Atrophy clitoral atrophy so clitoral atrophy or what we call ca. Okay. is a real thing, it has to do with a combination of hormone changes but also lack of use because our body is very efficient and it's not gonna spend a lot of resources keeping, your clitoris fully plump with full circulation and nerve sensitivity if it's not being used because that's just a sensory organ. Mm-hmm. If you're not using it, you're just neglecting it and you're not, getting aroused and having all that erectile tissue fill up with blood, then over time it just atrophies. The clitoral atrophy actually, Results in, it's shrinking so it's less accessible. And then harder to get it erected, bring it back to a life. Bring it back to life. the other thing that people don't know is that your clitoral spongy tissue that gets engorged is actually a whole figure eight around your body. So it's from the what we know now, men might not know. Have you seen in my logo that star is the clitoris? So, okay.

Deanna: 14:09

it makes sense now it's Right.

Martha: 14:12

Right there, everyone thinking is right there. It's that spot. And they're like, go in and they're like rubbing it like and a eraser. Right. cuz once like, I know where the little man in the canoe is so they go there But it really, all the nerve endings and everything goes all the way around your B and your vagina and then crosses in between like in the mm-hmm. I don't know how to say the word. Is it perineum? Or perineum,

Deanna: 14:31

The taint. Yeah, the taints. Yeah. It crosses. Yes, it's the

Martha: 14:35

taint. Cause this is not a medical podcast. Yes. Process,

Deanna: 14:38

please. Yeah, please. You. I come here for that

Martha: 14:40

Yeah. And surrounds your, anus, your butthole. and then it also goes inside. There are legs of it that go into your vagina, which leads to, what is your G-spot? The G spot's not a separate thing, it's just where some of the spongy tissue ends up inside your vagina. It's all connected. the outside clitoris that's the canary in the coal mine. If that starts to recede and go into the hood and you can't get it to work or it's not sensitive, that's just because that is like dying from lack of use and hormone and, and circulation. Interesting. So then that leads to other issues because all those muscles are together. So it's not unrelated to incontinence, it's not unrelated to other vaginal atrophy and dysfunction. It's not unrelated to pelvic floor health. It's all together. it's not just a sex issue. Sure. It's a pelvic health issue. in my case, from being celibate and through some masturbation free years out of guilt and an old toy, frankly, if I'm honest, had, I hadn't using the same style toy for

Deanna: 15:39

20 years. There's so many choices now. I made Yeah, I know. I mean,

Martha: 15:43

so I had to switch it up cause like, oh. And since I wasn't working, I wasn't doing it and I didn't have a bathtub. There are all these things that were leading to less of that. so when I was surprised with a fun, unexpected sexual encounter that was, oh, hey, this isn't working properly. The alert. And then when I went and did the research, I realized that, but that was a mild case. Praise the Lord. Yeah. that research led to everything else because once I was aware of that, I realized, oh, I am in perimenopause. And then I started recognizing the other symptoms. And then doing all the other research. But it all started because, you know, it, what is wrong with you It wasn't working like it worked, but it kind of felt like, I mean, I, I can speak openly cause I'm not in that relationship anymore. And I was so sensitive and worried about his ego and everything, but there were times when I thought, shouldn't, shouldn't I be feeling more right now? Like, shouldn't this feel different? Shouldn't, yeah. and then I felt self-conscious and responsible because, you know, it's, it's always our fault if things aren't wonderful right? Like, oh, maybe I'm frigid, whatever, all those things. But that is not my opinion. It's not the truth. But, we're such caregivers and we feel so responsible that it had to be an amazing experience. And if my, sexual organs were not responding properly, now, I was at fault. Although I don't hold a guy at fault if he has any kind of ed issue. Right. But I totally do upon myself. Remember it wasn't that

Deanna: 17:06

good, you know? Well, here's, you could tell something. You could tell something was up, something

Martha: 17:11

was wrong. But I will tell you this now that its over and I wouldn't have been able to say this before. I think that the good sex I was trying to recover with him as as I was going and I was just really invested in it being great cuz when I reflected, more objectively it was just any sex in a storm, any sex in the quarantine And that it had been so long, but also once I realized that there was a dysfunction, I was so focused on fixing that dysfunction I kind of ignored that overall it was fine. Yeah. It wasn't wonderful, but at the time I was really invested in believing that it was great and fabulous and that this was the one issue. But really it was so much overall. No. Like I'm like, oh that was great but I'm not gonna remember it as this amazing, sexual compatibility. or experience. But I'm grateful cuz I wouldn't even have noticed. Yeah. I would been a couple more years down the road possibly just cuz of my nature. I'm not really a hookup. Gal, obviously Sure. By the celibacy. so if he hadn't shown up like with his dick in his hand, literally, like he was just

Deanna: 18:17

delivering it right there. Yeah. I mean, legendary

Martha: 18:20

epic bravo crap. I I still am so impressed with his, his ballsiness. Yes. No pun intended, but like really very impressive. Hilariously impressive. But, if you hadn't shown up, I would've been two more years maybe longer. Oh yeah. And, and not down the path of degradation and atrophy and for me Sure. Some hormone deficiencies who knows? So it all works out great. And I'm not gonna sneeze at any sex, cuz it was still fine. It was great, you know? Yeah. Because I was there and I'm pretty good at this. Sure. Yes. But, it wasn't dreamy. Yeah. It just, I was distracted by the concern about my own. Functioning. And so I

Deanna: 18:56

lot, I would be, would be too like, like, what is, what is wrong with you? Come on now. You know, like, come on. I was betrayed. Come on you, come on now. like, you know, work for me. Work for me. That's interesting. It's very interesting to just think about that whole thing I was doing keels while we're talking. I'm like, I'm just, oh, let's do those again. Like as you're talking about, I'm like, no atrophy. No atrophy,

Martha: 19:17

nothing. Give That helps with circulation for

Deanna: 19:19

sure. I know. I've been trying to do more of those, you know, they say when you're pregnant you should do that or whatever, and you should just do it in general. I forget about it until we start talking about mm-hmm. that, or if I read something, I'm like, oh, gotta do it. Gotta work on it. You know?

Martha: 19:31

I will add this cuz I've, of course I'm obsessed, right? Yes. And so I've been researching and there's a whole specialty now on pelvic floor health. And people who do pelvic-floor therapy and interventions and things. And, what they're saying now is that kegels are not necessarily the best way to do it. they're good for you. Cuz even when you do it, like right now with my eyebrows, right? Yes. I'm doing it. I can feel that there's more blood flow. Yes. Right? Yes, yes. Like you're almost, I could get myself excited right. If I

Deanna: 19:57

Oh wow. Okay

Martha: 19:57

I'm just saying

Deanna: 19:58

Okay,

Martha: 19:59

Just because, because it's like a lot of attention there.

Deanna: 20:01

Sure.

Martha: 20:01

So it, it's good for you. But to do too many can, can strengthen just one part of your pelvic floor that can cause an imbalance. Nowadays they have exercisers What do you,

Deanna: 20:14

you like shove it up in there and do what? What?

Martha: 20:16

Yeah. I don't really know. I, I haven't, I haven't actually gone deeper in, cuz I have, I did buy myself

Deanna: 20:20

deeper in

Martha: 20:23

I did buy myself something called a vFit Okay. Which is, do you know about this?

Deanna: 20:29

No, but I feel like I've seen that. It's probably in my algorithm That's probably why

Martha: 20:32

I'm sure you're getting ads cuz we're friends So Vfi is, I dunno what it is right now, but it was like a$500 device. My friend's like, you're buying a$500 vibrator. I'm like, all in the name of research.

Deanna: 20:42

I knew it was gonna,

Martha: 20:43

I mean, bought myself a Dyson Airwrap Why wouldn't I buy myself, the you know, equivalent of my vagina appliance. the vFit uses red-light therapy

Deanna: 20:53

Okay.

Martha: 20:54

It uses red light to which we know is proven

Deanna: 20:56

Yes.

Martha: 20:56

To help, keep the tissues fresh

Deanna: 20:58

mm-hmm

Martha: 20:58

And moist and healthy,

Deanna: 21:00

moist

Martha: 21:00

and a certain kind of vibration. And then you use it every other day. And then it helps with health. That's just one thing it keeps things, revved up, but it's not a sex toy. not that you can't use it that way

Deanna: 21:09

Does it feel like a sex toy

Martha: 21:10

No. It depends on

Deanna: 21:11

does it feel like a sex toy?

Martha: 21:13

It depends on the mood I'm in.

Deanna: 21:14

Right.

Martha: 21:15

If I'm, if I'm like scrolling through the news and doing my 10 minutes, Mm-hmm. it's just

Deanna: 21:19

Yeah. It's just therapy.

Martha: 21:21

If I'm like, Ooh, I should do my vFit Hmm. it's like anything else in a certain mindset, I'm like, oh, and I can take care of other things at the same time. but it does vibrate, but it's internal vibration. It's specific to, I mean, I imagine if that's what gets you excited, then that would for sure be a sex toy. obviously with my obsession with the external, that's not really

Deanna: 21:41

not your thing

Martha: 21:41

Not currently. anyway, things change. Life is long

Deanna: 21:45

Things change Hello.

21:46

Hey there, I'm popping in to tell you that the Vfi did not cost$500. I paid$500 for a Dyson Air wrap, so I must have confused it. But you can actually pay even less than I paid on any vfi purchase by using my codes or my links. In the show notes, you'll find a link for a special limited time offer for the My Aloof Vagina bundle, where your price on a complete Vfi starter kit is actually less than the regular price for the vfi alone. The kit comes with the gel, cleansing wipes, and other things, and you save more than$50 on those bonuses. The code for that is MAV Kit and it's available only while supplies last. Or you can pick any products you like, including the VFI Gold and get 10% off. Everything with Mav 10. You'll see the discounts applied in the shopping cart. I recommend the vfi to all my friends you and your maturing Vagina can thank me later.

Martha: 22:40

there are different exercisers that even have feedback and apps. I haven't looked into them, but I will now that we've talked about it. Mm-hmm. where you stick it in and you use different muscles or whatever. The whole point is, I always thought keels and would do them. And now, and I'm like,

Deanna: 22:54

as I'm focused,

Martha: 22:55

what, what'd you say? Well, I can't hear you. I'm feeling Um, I think it's another symptom. The attention to our health that's shifting, Yep. But it's interesting to me that it's not in the medical field, it's all commerce. It's the V fit. It's doing the research whether keels are really the best way. So now someone sees an opportunity and sells a gadget, as opposed to the doctors saying, keels are not the way. Instead private industry. yeah. Women

Deanna: 23:22

industry, women's health in general, like, I mean the beauty industry Yeah. Is where it's happening. that's just the way people shop anymore and the way they do things is all influenced by, whether it's friends or influencers or that kind of thing or something. You read, watch whatever, a celebrity endorsed it, yada yada. I do think since this is like, God, it sounds so, it sounds so saying it from a 52 year old, but things are just so different now. The way we communicate, the way we share information. why not talk more about like, this is what's lacking in the medical industry. more focus on women and aging women and women that are going through this time of life. And you're starting to see more of that. And it's not just because the algorithm rhythm says so. It's because it's just our generation. We're just like, listen, we're loud and but you need to help us get through this period. You know? And I think there's just more information, more doctors that are focusing on that. the book that I was talking to you about, I'm throwing this disclaimer out here now. You don't need to give the

Martha: 24:22

disclaimer because Okay. I don't, no, I don't want a disclaimer. it's a useful

Deanna: 24:26

book.

Martha: 24:26

She's a specialist in women's health, and I think the book, is useful. And I also have seen her as an expert in women's health for a very long time. So I, same.

Deanna: 24:34

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everything I've researched on her, and she was one of the first people like saying, listen, there is not enough funding. So I've had to create my own facility to help women during this time. They're not freaking just losing their mind.

Martha: 24:48

So, Dr. Christian. Northrop. Mm-hmm. long history of being someone who focuses on our rhythms and our health holistically and spiritually, energetically. But also she's a gynecologist, yes, yes, yes. Um, so she's a legitimate expert and has been talking about menopause and change for years Yes. And years. And this book that you read, um, what's the title of that book? It's funny cause

Deanna: 25:13

show notes.

Martha: 25:13

So one of, when we were talking about you being a makeup artist for more than 30 years. More than 30 years So I know that, I mean, listen, I didn't even own any makeup until you and I had a consultation. you had some things come on now. You were like, throw that away. Throw that away. Yes. Throw it away. I didn't have any foundation. My brushes were sad and old. I went to Sephora with a list. My friend says, buy these things. I know. I love it. it was great and I did it. And now I have makeup and I wear makeup more than ever now. Thank you. Yes, yes. and I feel like I have all the things I need, part of that probably was that I had aged I was still doing things the way I would've done them when I was 25. And we've talked in the past, about you have techniques and some things that women can do. as they get older there are changes, right?

Deanna: 26:01

Oh yeah, I've got a lot of them. We'll have to do another podcast on that, like, just full blown. if you can take two takeaways from today Yes, please.

Martha: 26:09

And then we'll and then we'll come back and we'll do a whole thing about that. Yes, yes,

Deanna: 26:12

yes, yes. Then it would be fine because I, I deal with, you know, girls that are your tweens to women in their seventies. So I'm dealing with women of all different age ages. But the one thing that I will say, is we don't need foundation to cover up every single thing. It really is. Less is more. I love makeup, so I'm gonna wear, I love the eyeshadow, eyelight or whatever. especially in person, less is more spot conceal versus like a full mask of foundation. Foundation really should just be to even out the skin tone. And then to come in with spot concealer. Like I have some really big dark sunspots on certain parts of my face. I have hereditary dark circles that I blame on my dad cuz they are hereditary. So covering those up. and I just think that with makeup, this is my second biggest thing, I know there are techniques to like lift and do these things. I believe that if you are just happy wearing the way you like to wear your makeup, and if that's a big bold lip, yes, you do it because makeup such an expression even until you're 95. You know what I mean? like, there's people on social media that I follow that you know, are models and they're in their seventies and still wearing a bright red lipstick, hot pink, I pro aging, you know what I mean? It's such a blessing to age, right? It's such a privilege to age cuz we know how short life can be, have fun with your makeup, you know, of course there's ways that you can look fresh and yada, yada, yada. But at the same time, I want you to still share your personality.

Martha: 27:40

so the two tips are, and as I'm, I'm like staring at your face and look at my face and I'm so concerned about the, the lighting, but also like, you look beautiful and fresh and I'm like, pull together. No, but because, because of preferences on, on, you know, also you have a different complexion than I do. Well,

Deanna: 27:58

but I did spot conceal. Yeah. I'm not wearing a full face of foundation either. Yeah.

Martha: 28:02

Like, you know, the tips are you don't need a full face of foundation. You can just spot cover it. And that's what you do to look fresh when you're in person and to maintain your personality. So makeups for fun. So if there's something you love, like a bold lip or a certain kind of eyeliner or something that you like to do, keep doing it. You don't have to change it just cuz you're aging

Deanna: 28:20

or just because the nothing bothers me more. And this we can get in onto the other podcast but is watching social media influencers telling me, eh, this is wrong. Eh, stop this, don't do this. it just drives me crazy. So it's like, you know, watch who you follow, you know, but I follow people that like feed me, you know what I mean? Like, give me good information, but I'm not, I'm gonna still do what makes sense to me. If I wanna wear a full blush like I always do, hell yeah. I'm gonna do what I want, cuz that feels good to me, I'm just all about doing you. And especially with makeup, of course there's techniques, of course, you can do things to accentuate and, lessen the appearance of whatever But at the same time it's like, it's still being your personality. To me that's more youthful than anything

Martha: 29:03

else. Well, I think that's a good place for us to end, because really the message is, one of the gifts of aging is knowing who you are and allowing yourself to just be you. Thank you for listening. Take care of yourself and take care of your vagina. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend you think would enjoy it too. And one of the surprises of the show has been how great it is to hear from you Remember to find me the next time you're on Instagram to let me know what you think. Look me up at my aloof vagina.