What's the Deal With Phantom Smells & Heart Palpitations in my 40s and 50s? Are They Dangerous? Should I Be Consulting Dr. Google? Why Do I Have to Self Diagnose to Be Taken Seriously? And What If the Only Doctors Who Seem to Listen to Me Are The Quacks?

Martha: 0:01

Hey there! Here's what's coming up in this episode. Watch! Next we'll be doing an episode and say, "Now my iron's too high and we can't get it down! I'm going to a special doctor. They're doing blood letting!"

Kristen: 0:11

I have to go to a blood letter.

Martha: 0:12

I just bleed over a bucket.

Kristen: 0:14

Yes. One of these doctors that uses leeches. That's what I'm doing.

Martha: 0:16

Yes. You know, it's traditional medicine., What our ancestors did.

Kristen: 0:20

Exactly.

Martha: 0:21

Welcome to the My Aloof Vagina Podcast, where we explore the distress and surprise of our midlife transitions. We take menopause seriously, but we don't take ourselves seriously, we believe that learning what to expect in perimenopause can be entertaining. It's inevitable, so we may as well equip ourselves and have a good time. You're about to meet my friend, Kristen, and hear about a back-to-back series of alarming symptoms she had. What does it look like when you go to even your "good" doctor with hard-to-document symptoms when you have struggled with anxiety in the past? What about when you advocate for yourself, they run tests and the tests show nothing? Or they show something, but your doctor doesn't seem spurred to action? And should you avoid consulting Dr. Google, before you go? We covered these questions and more in this episode. By the way , as always, anything we talk about is in the show notes for each episode, links, more details, photos, those kinds of things. You can find them any time right there in your podcast app or at myaloofvagina.com. I'm your host, Martha and I suspect you may be just as puzzled by the shuffle on your particular perimenopause playlist as we are. It can be maddening. And sometimes scary. Peri-menopause is challenging. Like reverse puberty. Hormones, surge and fluctuate. And that spurs changes in our bodies. And just when you've gotten a handle on something new- weepiness heart palpitations - some shift some more and it can just go away. Often while you're treating it. Did that supplement or lifestyle change or medication fix it? Or was that segment of this journey set to end anyway.? Kristen and I had talked about what had been going on, including persistent daily diarrhea, BEFORE we recorded this conversation for you. So we start with what it was like revisiting her doctor with that issue still unresolved and with more one-off symptoms that were freaking her out. I just turned 51, so, I don't know, 48 or whatever... so that was kind of when some of this stuff started happening for me. But when everything kind of shut down with covid, I started experiencing heart palpitations. And I have a degree in exercise science. I run EKGs on people all the time for fitness tests. So I kind of knew what was going on, but it also is very scary when it's your own heart. So I first tried using apps on my watch or my phone to try to catch it, to see if it's a, just a PVC which is nothing to worry about, blah, blah, blah. okay, what's a PVC?

Kristen: 2:53

Just a premature ventricular contraction. Most people have had it happen, and they don't know it, either they don't feel it, or it feels like your heart skips a beat, but it happens like once randomly and you don't think anything of it. But for me, it was happening, like I would lie down to go to bed, and it feels like your heart is beating, beating, beating, beating, pause, beatbeat, beat, beat, beat, beat, beat, beat, beat. So that's what it feels like. So I called my doctor and I said, it's new . Obviously there's new stress in my world, in everyone's world. But, my dad has a history of AFib, which is atrial fibrillation, which is a completely different type of, heart palpitations that can actually lead to cardiac arrest, and death So throw that in there. And she was like, yeah, okay, we should get you worked up, so I had an in-person- which was pretty rare in mid 2020 cardiology appointment, . Same thing. He was basically like, this is normal. blah, blah, blah. PVC is no big deal. And I said, my dad has AFib. And he said, oh. so got a full workup, had an echo, everything was fine. But the point is obviously I had to kind of advocate for myself as I'm sure is a common need for all of us to say "No,, don't just tell me to take this pill when I feel like I'm an anxious woman. Give me a workup, make sure there's nothing wrong with my heart. Hello!" Yeah.

Martha: 4:11

So the pill that she gave you was for anxiety.

Kristen: 4:13

It's not, it's technically what's called a beta blocker.

Martha: 4:16

Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.. Kristen: So it just sort of slows but the one she originally gave me was to take as needed. And when I saw the cardiologist, he said, that is totally fine. You can keep taking that. but if you find that this is happening more often, we can also put you on something that you take daily and then you just would take the smallest dose. And if that helps, then you don't really have to think about it and wait till you're feeling it. So I currently am doing that. I'm taking something every day, and I originally was taking half of the lowest dose and I was doing fine with that. But then eh, it's happening more. I'm gonna switch to taking the full lowest dose. So that's what I do. The PVC things is so interesting to me as you described it, cuz I had that symptom. They took an EKG and they said, nothing's wrong with your heart.

Kristen: 4:59

Yeah. It's actually very common. Yeah.

Martha: 5:01

But it probably was premenopause related, but no one said anything to me about it. I remember that heart skipping to beat. it's scary

Kristen: 5:08

Totally scary.

Martha: 5:09

And, because I demanded checking, they did do the E K G, but that didn't find anything. So then they're like, well, yeah, you know, what else is going on with you ? What can we give you for anxiety?

Kristen: 5:19

But yes, They are incredibly common for perimenopausal women, but they're common in general. And the population that I do fitness testing on is firefighters. And they're pretty healthy guys and gals, and they have them a lot.

Martha: 5:30

Oh, okay. So they're not unsafe

Kristen: 5:32

If somebody's having 10 or 11 per minute in. higher stage of a treadmill test. We stopped the test just because it's, it's not right . And we're not doctors,

Martha: 5:41

So mainly you were treated because it was making it hard for you to sleep and distressing.

Kristen: 5:47

Yeah. It basically was because it was upsetting.

Martha: 5:50

Yeah. Which I think is a reasonable thing to,

Kristen: 5:52

yeah.

Martha: 5:53

To deal with. So tell us! On the rest of your saga... And then what happened?

Kristen: 5:56

Then what happened? So, somewhere along the line, I started being conscious of smelling, well, it's not natural gas because natural gas does not smell, but the smell they add to natural gas. And at first, because I was always sitting in the same place here at my desk, I thought, oh my gosh, there's a gas leak in my house. And anytime it would happen, I would call everybody in the house. And does anybody else smell that? No one else smelled it. No one else even was like, well, maybe, no, nobody smelled anything. And so it was kind of random And then over time it became regular. and then I would realize, like the time for me that I realized, okay, this is not a real thing. Like there's no way , there's a gas leak. Was I was in the hospital with my dad and I was sitting in the hospital room. Smelling the smell. yeah, there's no way . So I started really googling it. Cause I didn't wanna call my doctor and be like, I smell gas . She was gonna be like, did you call the gas company? Like,

Martha: 6:54

she's like, did you take that anti-anxiety medication?? Kristen: Right. Are you crazy? Yeah. So I, I didn't really do anything about it other than Google it, and I had to google pretty deeply to find that just like everything can be a symptom of menopause or perimenopause. Most of the time it's cigarette smoke when it happens. Uhhuh, I didn't find any other cases of natural gas. but you know, not everybody writes about their life on the internet, so you never know.. But of course the only other, things I found were that I probably had a tumor. Yeah. Right.. Kristen: Those were kind of the two exam I mentioned it And she probably raised her shoulders like, eh, eh, okay.. I think, you know, I just kind of stunned her and she didn't really have any Yeah, suggestions. I mean, I think she basically, she may have said like, I don't think it's anything to really worry about. But, it continued and got worse. then I had my checkup And, she was running super late, which she never is. And so she comes running in, this is for my physical. She goes through her list asks me all the usual things. She's standing up with her hand on the door and says, is there anything else? And I said, Uhhuh. I said first of all so here's where we go back to what you were alluding to So your morning constitution was loose every day

Kristen: 8:11

Very loose Yes Like water sometimes I'd have to go like three or four times for it to be done but Yep Yeah So maybe I mentioned it to my mom I don't know Uh but my mom's mom died of colon cancer Oh So she was like maybe mention it to your doctor So I did and she was kind of like okay let's do a full workup So thankfully again because I had this family history to draw on So I had lab work and poop lab work

Martha: 8:37

Right, all that good stuff!

Kristen: 8:39

It was super fun of course I had a colonoscopy Everything was fine So that was the first thing I brought up before I let her leave Then she's like okay hand on the door again Anything else Yes Uh remember last year I told you you may not remember I'm still having the gas smell and sometimes it's really bad and I actually think I am gonna go crazy And she's like okay So she sat back down at her computer and she's like well let me get you you know a referral to an NT doctor Okay So then she's like okay was there anything else And I yes

Martha: 9:14

Oh this could be like a this could be a scene in a sitcom

Kristen: 9:17

Yeah I was like could you change your way You're asking me this cuz clearly it's not working for you Yeah Um I said I am still having the heart palpitations and I did go up in my medication for them and she said okay but you've had a full workup and you're in contact with a cardiologist right I said yes And she said okay So I just think with everything that's going on a lot of these things are probably tied to anxiety And so we'll just keep an eye on ' Was there anything else? No I'm good Thank you So I left feeling sort of heard and sort of blown off and

Martha: 9:47

But with with orders for the Specialists and for workups.

Kristen: 9:52

Yes the ENT she sent me to, you know, by the time I got to her I was kind of like here's what's going on Yeah Please don't think I'm crazy

Martha: 10:00

You're like I'm having these phantom smells while I smell the natural gas additive everywhere I go Yeah Like it's haunting me and no one else smells it That I would make anyone crazy

Kristen: 10:10

She's she was great She immediately was like you're not crazy This absolutely happens Uh it's a real thing and there are lots of reasons it could be happening And so she kind of went through all of them with me She did not mention tumor

Martha: 10:23

Oh that was helpful It was nice Nicer than Dr Google

Kristen: 10:26

Yeah the first thing she said was inflammation from just ongoing allergies congestion whatever You could trigger something in one of your sinus passages and it's basically glitching Um so she said that's the first thing and that's kind of obviously what we hope it is but let's do a nasal scope for the first time since I can remember my, my periods aren't regular, right? so to me, I'm like finally, I mean, I'm kind of happy about it, , I'm like moving forward cuz I felt like I was in this weird perimenopause limbo where I was having some of the symptoms, but not the main one.. It was super regular. 28 days. Like yes. Textbook. And so then part of me is wondering like, well wait, maybe I'm actually moving into perimenopause now and These things are resolving Is there pre perimenopause? Martha: No, but perimenopause into, I'm not, I'm not an expert, but I am a perimenopause enthusiast. Yes. And I sort of looked into it cuz I didn't know I was in it cuz I didn't recognize the symptoms. Yeah. Which we've discussed before. And my period arrived like clockwork. And so I thought I wasn't even close. Yeah. And all of that perimenopause, all that span of up to 10 years is pre-menopause. And then you have that one day that you have your last period and you don't even know that's when menopause started. Right. Until you don't get one for another year. So maybe you're going through a different phase there was some shift enough in my hormones that it changed some of these other things I'd been experiencing that were related to being premenopause. Yeah. And I'll never know. We'll never know. so now I'm considering . Should I cut back on that other medication and see if that has resolved? Because I can't feel it. Yeah.

Martha: 12:09

I mean, again, I'm not a doctor, but I would think that you could, stop and see. But I think you can go through different symptoms and shift through, like I had all those heart palpitations, 45, 46. But I haven't had those PVCs. I feel so cool now that I know the name. Yeah. And I know that they're not dangerous, and that they're so common. I had those PVCs. I have not had phantom smells, but a friend of mine has that phantom smell and had a whole workup. I'm realizing now that she's of the age, cuz she smelled cigarettes smoke everywhere. She thought it was her neighbor. I feel like in the world right now I have it cuz I smell pot everywhere. Oh no. There is pot everywhere. E verywhere.

Kristen: 12:54

It's true.

Martha: 12:55

So i t could be through different hormone levels and things change,

Kristen: 12:59

I think. Yeah, absolutely. It, I mean, we don't give hormones enough credit.

Martha: 13:03

No. So, and it might have been you I was talking to, but I don't remember. I only recently became aware that gynecologists are technically surgeons. That's their training. And we are going to them for our transition support cuz it makes sense. Right. Right. That's my lady doctor. But that's not their specialty or their training. And you know, endocrinologists tend to focus on diabetes and thyroid conditions and other endocrine things unless they specialize in menopause. and there just aren't enough doctors specializing in menopause.

Kristen: 13:31

No. the other thing you and I talked about before was how we should all be tracking hormones throughout our whole entire lives. that way we would have a better sense of what is normal for us. when is something related to a hormone change and when isn't it? just would give us a lot more information. And it's easy, it's blood test, like added in there. Martha: Yeah. I mean that I have to fight for tests even for my thyroid. So I've had a thyroid condition now for, 15 years I guess, I had it before, but it took me a long time. That's what I was gonna tell you about the other day, about, the danger of Google, right? Hey, this is your cheeky reminder to join my list. Then I'll send you treats and behind the scenes stuff and more. At least I will when I actually get around to sending emails. just go to sisterhood.my aloofvagina.com to sign up, and I promise I will not bombard your inbox. And if you love this irreverent podcast, please recommend it to a friend you think will enjoy it so that we know to keep delivering this very specific style of midlife information and stories for you. You google "this" and symptom and it always comes up, but on more than one occasion because doctors have their hand on the doorknob, right? Yep. They're, they're out of time. and because they can't keep up with everything I self-diagnosed, went in and presented it to my doctor and was correct both times. Of course there's a thing where you can always think you have a tumor or, or you're going crazy or whatever, But there, there is also something to be said for the availability of the information. Totally. And you know your body and if you, if you're someone who can be a critical thinker and careful researcher and not alarmist, right? You can identify things so that you can kind of start to narrow the focus. I knew I had a thyroid condition, three physicals in a row. I had gone in and said, I think there's something wrong with my thyroid. I'd mentioned first I was exhausted, I was depressed. I was, since we already talked about poop, I was constipated. And I, I didn't have any hair on my eyebrows from like the middle of my eye out. And I had this weird thing where my thumbnails were cracking. So I mentioned that to her and she said, "Those aren't symptoms. But we'll do a TSH test." And then she's like, "Really you need to eat less and move more." I'm like, okay, all right. I don't think that's what's happening, and then the next year I'd go in and every time she said,"Your thyroid hormone is normal." So by then I'd googled like crazy and I said, I think I have this thing. I kind of played dumb. I said, actually, I lied and said that my aunt has this thing with her thyroid. It's kind of like, sounds Japanese. She's like, Hashimotos. And I said, oh yeah, like I didn't know, like I hadn't already studied the shit out of it. Exactly. And she's like, oh, I said,"So my aunt said that I should have my antibodies tested." She said, oh, well your insurance isn't gonna cover that. I said, well, I'll pay for it. I, I wanna know. Yeah. And sure enough, she called me next week and said, Hey, you do have that Hashimotos, but your TSH is still high. I said, okay. She's like, so we can't really treat it. And I said, what do you mean she, or still your tssh is still in range, right? And I said, well, what do you do? She's like, oh, you know, it kind of, your body attacks your thyroid and attacks your thyroid and eventually it'll totally poop out. And this is in 2006. and then we'll start giving you thyroid replacement. And I said, I'm 36 years old, I want a second opinion.. Yeah. So I went to an endocrinologist and, and then have been treated for Hashimotos ever since. And yeah. Letting it kill your thyroid is not Yeah. That sounds like a really bad plan.

Martha: 16:43

The solution, they have no way to reverse it. Right. Or at the time, traditional doctors didn't. So that was one case where I basically had to lie to a doctor to get the test I wanted. Yeah. But we can't expect like my GP to know about Hashimoto's and the proper treatment.

Kristen: 16:58

Right. Well that's, yeah. And that's who I've seen my gp. And thankfully she's referred me when she felt like she wasn't sure about something. And like you said, in general, my doctor's very good. There are just certain things that you're like, just take this seriously,

Martha: 17:12

and I think we did talk about this another time, just the idea that I understand they don't wanna medicalize something that's a natural stage of life. and if having phantom smells is part of that, they don't want to pathologize it and make it an illness. Cuz every illness has a code. and they have a protocol and the code for the billing. And so if they mark it as an illness, they have to deal with it in that way. This is where it all gets complicated too, by the health system and Exactly. Yeah. The insurance system. Right. and this is why I've sought care outside of Yeah, it's still a western. My doctor's still a western doctor. Yeah. it's outside the insurance system and she specializes in healthy aging. Right. That's her focus. But if there was some way to help us navigate it with either the research, they could say, yeah, this is crazy. But this is a list of 150 things that women have recently complained about in menopause have confirmed or related to their hormones. Yeah. or something. I don't even know how they would do it. That's is why this podcast even exists, because how you find out,

Kristen: 18:10

Yeah. How do you make this a systemized thing that every woman has access to? Right. Because you and I probably could have access to. specialists and things like that, that we can pay for. But everybody can't. and depending where you live, being in Southern California, I have tons of options if I lived somewhere in the, in rural areas. Yeah. I'm stucked with Dr. Google. Yeah.. Martha: And here's the other thing about My path into this kind of aging care was on a hunt for testosterone supplementation. Right. That's what I wanted. That's what I was going for because of that Clitoral Atrophy alarming thing. Would I have taken a different path? Would things be different, maybe even a positive way if I hadn't gone and found, I knew what I wanted through Dr. Google and podcasts and books and things., and she tested me and everything was fine otherwise, and she gave it to me and now I see her and focused on H R T. But if I hadn't had to self-diagnose, I probably would not have gone to my doctor and said, Hey, listen, I have a new boyfriend and it's been a while since I've had sex. And you know, I'm not having as many orgasms during intercourse as I'd like. So what do you recommend? Like, I probably wouldn't have gone to a traditional doctor anyway, so it's not even worth retreading it, but I'm on a very specific path in this paradigm of care that even believing in it, I'm talking to enough people on different paths to know that there's a whole different way to navigate it. And yeah. this is not necessarily the right way, but there wasn't some place else to get support right on it. Yeah. I had to go to, to a doctor who's awesome and kooky in the good way. My mom while I was growing up always had migraines. Yeah. And, started going to all kinds of doctors and called them her quacks. Yeah. I'm going to see one of my quacks today, but the quacks helped her. Martha: The quacks have time, they listen. Yep. They're open-minded enough and still searching that they're, well, they're not bound. Right. They don't have the same restrictions. They don't have the insurance restrictions. When you go in there, you know that, you know insurance is not gonna cover what they prescribe for you necessarily. Yeah. So if they find something that's a little bit weird or off-label, they just prescribe Yeah. You know, every time I go there, the conversation involves an additional supplement. And she's not even like some of my friends who go to functional doctors and that's insane. Like, they talk about food sensitivities and, and my friends go down these rabbit holes of testing and, and all of a sudden they're "sick people." So she's not even there. But she has me on vitamin D, which I'm glad and I should be on vitamin D. Yeah. now, there are different things. She's like, oh, you should take this, maybe try this. And then I listen and I go and I Google and I try to find things and I decide if I'm really gonna take it. But she also cares about nutrition and she cares that, I'm controlling my blood sugar and she cares about fitness. Well, it all goes together. It's very holistic. Yes. And I, I like that too. So she has time to talk to me. It costs a lot of money, but she's not just giving me pills. and taking isolated situations and giving you pills. right. Like it's a big picture. Like vitamin D is not . No. You know, I mean, that's a big picture supplement that most people need. Yes., Martha: But no one had now I feel like I'm just like, this is like our medical conversation. But I know I had always had lower iron, And she's the first one who focused on it long enough with me and gave me alternatives so that I could take a blood builder. Yeah. and I've been on it for a long time. I've never lasted on any of the irons they gave me cuz of the side effects. Right. I take a raw iron.

Martha: 21:24

I don't even know what this is. That probably is the same thing, but it's vegetable based mm-hmm. with beets and stuff like that. And it's resolved it. I don't have any kind of anemia anymore. Sure. But no one else has ever bothered or had the time or probably the luxury of focusing on it in the way that she does and then asking me and checking.

Kristen: 21:39

Yeah, I take a lot of things Yeah. You know? Yeah, me too. mostly my own research, but also some of it's from her. Like since I'm vegetarian, I'm not vegan, but she always checks my B12 and Yeah. Has me on a B12 supplement. She's like, I'd rather you just take it. vitamin D she did recommend years ago she started testing it and so I do do those types of, but yeah, it's a lot of, it's just, you wonder sometimes you're like, I don't know, . I just, who knows? Who really knows?

Martha: 22:04

Right. I just had this epiphany though. Maybe I'm finally not anemic cuz I'm finally not menstruating as much.

Kristen: 22:10

Yeah. That could be too. Martha: And I'm giving her all this credit cuz I take this raw iron, which is not, I, there is something, there's a product called Blood builder., Martha: that's what I take. Yeah. for whatever reason it's a B12 and all that. It's a combination. Yeah. I don't know, probably this was probably Dr. Amazon research I was doing. But, the raw iron I take, it doesn't bother my stomach cuz that's always been an issue, like constipation and all that with iron supplements. I was gonna find an iron that I can tolerate that seems to help. Mine's been higher too, so I do think it could be both. Martha.

Martha: 22:39

Yeah.. I just, I've never stuck to it long enough because Yeah. To know. Yeah. You know, because it always makes me feel sick. That makes sense. I just was like, oh yeah, they could do that. There's that too. Hmm. Yeah. That's the change. Watch next I'll be, we'll be doing an episode and say, now my iron's too high and we can't get it down.. I'm going to a special doctor to They're doing blood letting

Kristen: 22:58

I have to go to a blood letter., Martha: I just bleed over a bucket. Yes. One of these doctors that uses leeches. That's what I'm doing

Martha: 23:04

Yes. You know, it's traditional medicine., we have to respect what our ancestors did. to get out my humors, I gotta clear the humors.

Kristen: 23:10

Yes. Well, our, oh, now I can't think of the word. What, what did we, oh, how they used to describe women of our age. Oh,

Martha: 23:18

hysterics. Hysteria.

Kristen: 23:19

Hysteria. Yes. It's our hysteria. Yes.

Martha: 23:21

yeah, so right now everything is resolved.

Kristen: 23:24

I don't know about the heart thing cuz I haven't gone off the bed. Oh yeah. Right. but I've been just, that's something I just started thinking about the last couple weeks was the whole, change in my cycle or cycle being all over the place. Yeah. that there is definitely a hormonal change that has happened. that maybe why these things are resolving as well, and.. I mean, I guess I'll take it, but maybe new things will happen. So

Martha: 23:43

we'll have an update. So what symptoms now we can liken it to reverse puberty. Mm-hmm. in the sense that puberty doesn't happen all in one day. It's, what happens over time with those introduced and the different levels being introduced. So it makes sense to me that how we experience it will change over the period of time.

Kristen: 23:58

Yeah. The other thing, you know, was interesting cuz once I started thinking that these things were related to my cycle, month after month I would be like, what is wrong with me? And then I'd look at my calendar for the following week and I'd be like, oh, . And., I would find that during that week I would have more heartburn. I had more, roof of mouth pain.

Martha: 24:17

What?

Kristen: 24:17

Yeah. Google it.

Martha: 24:18

with, with the word perimenopause,

Kristen: 24:20

of course. Okay. Mm-hmm.. Martha: If I'm really honest with who's in the car and her husband's like, I thought this was gonna be about vaginas in a different way. Well, my real goal is to go through this and be healthy. Like avoiding sarcopenia, right? Avoiding muscle wasting. I have my eye on maintaining my weight. I'm not trying to lose weight anymore. Right. Like, I'm at the point where I'm like, I don't wanna be a frail old lady. Right? I wanna be as strong as possible, as long as I can. and maintaining my heart health and all of these different things and blood sugar. so if I do those things, if we do those things, I'm focused on them and, lucky enough not to get ill or sick. Right. Or have an accident. then it doesn't have to look like it used to. Right. I don't have to look like they're still alive, but they're not listening to this. Cuz I said, pussy, pussy, pussy, vagina, pussy. And they'll turn it off. But I mean, right. Like my mom is super frail for her age. It's ridiculous how much she has wasted in just the last 10 years. I look at it and I think, well, she's only 20 years older than me so am I 10 years away from starting to lose all my muscle mass? And tottering and losing my balance, right? How am I gonna live my life differently? what am I gonna do to make sure now, That I have the health foundation, that I can navigate this and be healthier than what I'm observing in the people ahead of me. My mom is 76, I believe. and we just had this conversation. She's like, Kristen, all of my friends are these frail old ladies. She is my role model, for health and fitness. She's very active. She lifts weights, she's walks a lot, and she's not frail., she's not frail at all.

Martha: 25:50

I should have your mom on, or you should go interview her. And so you can come back with like, tips on how to not be a frail 76 year old.

Kristen: 25:58

You know what? This is where your doctor's right: eat less, move more. Yeah. that's gonna be her secret. I'll tell you. It's, it's that she has always eaten really well. not crazy. She, she enjoys her wine. She enjoys dessert, but not a lot. She at least goes for a walk every day and she does weight training or cardio or something. at least four, if not five times a week she's been that way her whole life. So yeah, that's the advice.

Martha: 26:21

Well, there's, we're talking about so many things.

Kristen: 26:24

We've covered a lot of ground. Yeah. Or we at least tred over it. I don't know if we did covered it. Martha: We, we visited it. Yes. And it all, it didn't even all start with poop. No. But we got there. Mm-hmm., poop and vaginas. I definitely want to think about the ways we can navigate the health system to get the support that we need. Absolutely. it feels like such a revolution that I am more inclined to start looking for resources. We need, you know, obviously med schools to get on board and the newer generation of doctors and, and care providers of all types to realize the potential for this. If you wanna just make it even commercial, this market , for a lot of women of the age that are going through menopause. They're comfortable, they have insurance, they have what they need, but they can't find the right providers. So, yeah, I don't know. there's so many layers of what needs to or could happen to help.

Martha: 27:12

Totally. And I think the solutions they'll probably be market driven. Exactly. instead of, and there are already so many products, so many and so many things. the anti-aging market from a wellness perspective is so huge. Right. it just feels like that's where it's gonna come from it's just challenging because so many of the things that. experience. if someone could say, oh, actually that's normal, right? We're not gonna give you a drug for it, but just so you know, this is normal. You could try some meditation or you know, definitely hydrate more. you're not crazy. Right? This happens, even that would be an improvement,

Kristen: 27:42

Even if it's just the, the bedside manner, whatever that means.

Martha: 27:45

Yeah. But I would love to have that for these other symptoms that experience with perimenopause.

Kristen: 27:50

Absolutely. I mean, instead of either blowing it off or saying, Might be anxiety, which of course it could be. We all have it. just say, wow, that is., you're right on schedule! Perfect.

Martha: 28:01

These unexplained symptoms are not illnesses. We can't really treat them, but they're real and yeah. I'm sorry. You're uncomfortable. gonna feel self-conscious cuz I'm basically saying it's in your head, but in your head still is real.

Kristen: 28:12

Yeah. That's still a place, that's still a legit thing that we need to take care of. just cuz it's in your head doesn't mean doesn't have the potential to be really disruptive to your life.

Martha: 28:22

So I think we should end on that. Just because it's in your head doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential to be really disruptive in your life. There are a lot of symptoms and things we experience that are not illness but are disruptive. Absolutely. Just because it's a natural state, just cuz every woman goes through it. Doesn't mean the things that are happening during aren't important.. Thank you for listening. Until next time, t ake care of yourself and take care of your vagina. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend you think would enjoy it too. And one of the surprises of the show has been how great it is to hear from you ! Remember to find me the next time you're on Instagram to let me know what you think. Look me up at my aloof vagina.